Wednesday, July 9, 2008

Mighty Dangerous

"Your honor, Madhavananda is more dangerous than an inflight movie."

Mystery Man

13 comments:

jijaji said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

It is truly amazing what happens when you combine a testerone overload with vaishnava aparadha.
It appears that the result is one nutjob.

Anonymous said...

I meant to say "testosterone overload".
After the third beer my typos get more frequent.

Anonymous said...

i was wondering what happened to Madhava/Ananda's former followers like Rasaraj, Tarun etc. Have they also switched to Buddhism?

Dave said...

1. He eclipses a great deal more than inflight movies!

2. For those concerned, head over to Vilasa Kunja and interact with the old gang. Quite content in their vaishnavism, I can assure you.

3. Posting anonymously is far too cowardly.

Anonymous said...

Dave,

Realistically, Vilasa Kunja is a sad site to visit these days. It was already sad when Madhava was there due to the site's nearly zero activity. Where is the chance to interact with the gang - there is hardly anything posted, especially since Madhava left.

If this is a sample of vaishnavism at radhakunda, then you have got to admit the scenario is quite bleak.

It is true being anonymous is cowardly. But I think so long the individual makes an honest point, without cowardly attacks or insults, anonymity is not really the issue. Surely you have considered that individuals who treasure very close and personal interactions, do not expect to experience their best exchanges to happen at an internet forum/blog. The impersonal is intrinsic to the internet, even if you name yourself duly.

But at the same time, and ironically, exchanges on the internet do reflect very realistically the state of real life of individuals and their communities.

Dave said...

It is true being anonymous is cowardly. But I think so long the individual makes an honest point, without cowardly attacks or insults, anonymity is not really the issue.

The 'anonymous' comments above this are in complete opposition to this statement! You - or someone, since its anonymous I can't tell - basically implied that several well known western vaishnavas (and yes, friends of mine) are basically blind followers of Madhava - where the wind blows him, the rest follow. Is this not insulting?

I provide you with a place to interact with those you are obviously so worried about, and better, to interact with them on vaishnava topics, and you tell me it's a 'sad site'. Then, by all means come over and breathe some life into it.

You are however correct in that some conversations are to be kept private, but these are meaningful things between people that know and trust each other as friends. Such conversations are stil going on - your just not being included.

Dave said...

But at the same time, and ironically, exchanges on the internet do reflect very realistically the state of real life of individuals and their communities.

This is a complete falsehood, I can assure you. Most of my exchanges are completely private, and therefore those on the internet rather do not reflect me at all.

Anonymous said...

Most of my exchanges are completely private, and therefore those on the internet rather do not reflect me at all.

What does it reflect, then?

If Gaudiya Vaishnavism cannot be known through these sites, what is then their purpose at all?

If you reserve your bhakti for private exchanges, please do not be so sensitive when someone points out that the public board you run is rather dry.

Dave said...

Actually - and Madhava can back this up - I've argued since the demise of GaudiyaDiscussions that forums are an unfit way for Vaishnavas to come together. It was put forth to the community if VK should be kept running, and the vote was 'Yes' (I abstained, but my vote would have been 'No'). I run the board as a service to those that want it - not as some kind of personal preaching mechanism.

I fear your attitude, if you are indeed actually interested in Vaishnavism, is exactly why I think forums do not work - no one is willing to put in the work to build a community. The common idea is 'Oh, let someone else do it'. And more commonly, when someone does put in the effort to then shoot them down (see any of the criticisms of Madhava out there).

I don't like forums, but sincere devotees wanted it, and as I have some technical ability, I keep it running.

If Gaudiya Vaishnavism cannot be known through these sites, what is then their purpose at all?
I'm not a preacher and honestly I care little for how much GV 'can be known' from the sites. Madhava was obviously much more concerned with outreach, and the sites he did are obviously much more concerned with this.

I notice you have cleverly switched the argument from the insulting anonymous posting to attacking me on running a 'dry' site. If you have something meaningful to say, stand behind your words.

Govinda said...

I appreciate your running the site for the sake of reciprocating with some vaishnavas [who requested it stay open]. But I still stand behind my words that I don't find stimulation in that site.

Obviously it is meaningful enough for me to say this. If you don't think its meaningful enough for you, that is just my bad luck, I guess.

The fact is, individuals benefit from those who are Krsna Conscious. Indeed, that is the philosophy, that we get Krsna from a vaishnava. I like to read about the sidhanta, I like to hear of other vaishnavas realizations. I like to know that Krishna is in someone else's life, so there may be hope for me.

You say you don't care that GV may be known. But to get GVism from those who have it is indeed the only hope for those who have never seen or heard of it before. So "preaching" is inseparable from the process. You pass it on.

I am not attacking you personally. How could I, I don't know you. But the site is sad that one does not find there a great flow of information on Krishna Consciousness. Especially considering the potential this group hold in giving a better view of the tradition to the world.

Govinda said...

But to get GVism from those who have it is indeed the only hope for those who have never seen or heard of it before.

I should add that not only those who have never heard of it but those who have heard it a million times, all are, at all times, at the mercy of satsanga.

‘sadhu–sangha’, ‘sadhu-sangha’ – sarva-sastre kaya lave matra sadhu-sange sarva-siddhi haya. [Cc Madhya 22.15]

Govinda said...

. There is no harm to anyone in broadcasting the infinite possibilities of GVism.

. To provoke inquiry on this path is a form of kripa.

. Even for those who have left GVism, still the journey can be retaken in this life or another. The samskara is bound to be the deepest the soul can undergo as far as its potential for intimacy with God.

. To build a community: it shouldn't be just an option but an astounding grace upon anyone.

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